Some states want to punish fuel-efficient car drivers!

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Tim Howard, Jan 8, 2009.

  1. Tim Howard

    rmac Guest

    Why would I say goodbye to my pickup which has a 5.7 liter engine?
    I can afford the price of gasoline even if a large tax were to be added.
    Please do not assume that everyone is willing to suffer driving an
    underpowered, small size automobile to save a few bucks
    (or to appease a few overzealous environmentalists).
    Charging by the mile is the only fair way to tax.
     
    rmac, Jan 9, 2009
    #21
  2. Tim Howard

    Mike Hunter Guest

    Make all roads toll roads?

     
    Mike Hunter, Jan 10, 2009
    #22
  3. Tim Howard

    dizzy Guest

    Why not? It's their fault.
    "Spending" isn't bad. "Deficit" spending, "trickle down economics"
    are bad.
    It was the Bush gang that decided that it was "bad" to run a surplus
    for a while, "bad" to save for a "rainy day". It was the Bush gang
    that cut taxes when the enonomy was already going strong (just as
    counter-productive as tax increases when the economy needs
    stimulation), thus over-heating the economy and leading to the
    inevitable hard fall.

    This is Macro Economics 101. They blew it.
     
    dizzy, Jan 10, 2009
    #23
  4. Tim Howard

    Pete M Guest

    As someone who runs a fleet including a 6.75 litre Bentley Turbo, a 6.7
    litre V10 Excursion, a 7.2 Litre Jensen Interceptor III and whos
    personal cars include a turbocharged V8 Range Rover (which averages
    around 9 MPUSG) I have to agree that fuel prices, if you can afford
    them, are irrelevant and will not change your choice of car.
    However, I'm also involved closely with the UK secondhand Motor Trade
    and when the fuel prices in the UK hit £1.15 UKP / Litre (£5.00 per USG)
    combined with a perceived hike in road fund licence on large engined
    cars - a lot of the general public believed erroneously that anything
    with an engine larger than around 2.0 was going to cost £400 a year in
    tax before turning a wheel - the value of anything with a large engine
    dropped horrendously. I bought a Range Rover 4.6 around April for £1200,
    the garage I bought it from had given £4000 for it as P/X in February
    quite reasonably as it had a retail value Jan '08 of £5000. By April it
    was almost impossible to sell because nobody knew what it was worth and
    buyers of large cars has virtually disappeared in the UK even though the
    fuel prices have dropped again.



    --
    Pete M - OMF#9

    BMW 325i SE Touring
    Range Rover V8 Turbo
    Renault 30 TX Auto

    "Wait! We can't stop here, this is Bat Country"
     
    Pete M, Jan 10, 2009
    #24
  5. Tim Howard

    Scott Dorsey Guest

    Please note that Bush is an idiot and not necessarily representative
    of conservative economic philosophy. Do not claim all conservative
    economics is worthless just because one man decided to give all your
    tax dollars to his friends instead of using it wisely.
    Yes, well, I don't think anyone in the White House was thinking any
    farther ahead than his own paycheck.
    --scott
     
    Scott Dorsey, Jan 10, 2009
    #25
  6. Let's see....and you spend time on the Usenet.

    Uh-huh.

    Or by "runs a fleet" do you mean "washes the boss's cars"?
     
    Elmo P. Shagnasty, Jan 10, 2009
    #26
  7. Tim Howard

    John Guest

    Weekly in one of the Sydney, Australia newpapers there is an entire page of
    letters compiled by a Mechanical Engineer of people asking about problems
    with cars. Without fail every week its Ford, Holden ( GM) with rare mentions
    of Japanese/Korean/European. I,m sure every brand car has the odd
    manufacturing problem but most of the faults reported in this column are
    design defects. Blokes with 3-4 failed differentials in 2 years, Brake hoses
    bursting, porous engine castings that spout oil. Thats probably one reason
    you see more Asian cars.
     
    John, Jan 10, 2009
    #27
  8. Tim Howard

    Jeff Guest

    Incorrect. You use the system when you are no longer full of crap.

    Jeff
     
    Jeff, Jan 10, 2009
    #28

  9. But the state wants money for roads and highways. They get through fuel
    sales, and if therre are no fuel sales then there are no funds for roads an
    dhighways, yet there are still cars rolling upon them.



    We should not be creating the idea in people's
    That strategy only collects from those vehicles, there are lots of other
    vehicles that do not pay their way.



    No. It's false to look at it as punishment. It is not punishment to pay for
    roads and highways that you use, regardless of how you use them.

    I too have been a victim of conservation that worked so well as to cause a
    raise in rates -- water rates, the same as in your example. The water
    company said to the regulators, "the people are saving so much water that we
    don't make any money at this rate, so we need to raise it." The regulators
    signed off.

    That scenario is different than the road tax issue that you are talking
    about. In the road tax, people are still using the roads via a means that
    does not generate the revenue needed to build and maintain them, therefore
    they are using the roads for free. In the water issue, we are using water
    and paying for it.
     
    Jeff Strickland, Jan 10, 2009
    #29
  10. Right.

    There's a base cost for having the infrastructure to maintain the
    roads--the state must have equipment and people in place. Then there's
    the incremental cost, which is how hard the roads are used. That's a
    function of vehicle miles and weight.

    Question: is this like education, where it's to the benefit of EVERY
    citizen of the state that the roads are there and maintained? If so,
    then the base cost should be spread out among ALL citizens, in the form
    of a tax. Then the incremental cost can be paid for with fuel taxes or
    similar.
     
    Elmo P. Shagnasty, Jan 10, 2009
    #30
  11. Tim Howard

    Floyd Rogers Guest

    Let's be clear, here. If *you* were *interested* in this, you would
    have joined a thread discussing OR's plan 2 years or more ago when
    it was first discussed. Or you would have posted to a more appropriate
    newsgroup.

    And you have no *plan*, you just have ill-formed opinions based
    upon reading a few articles in the popular press (rather than professional
    journals.)

    I don't always agree with Jeff, but so far I'm on board with his criticism.

    FloydR
     
    Floyd Rogers, Jan 10, 2009
    #31
  12. Tim Howard

    dizzy Guest

    Yet he was re-elected after this was apparent. Shame on those who
    voted for him the second time.
    Of course not worthless. What true conservative would condone such
    reckless deficit spending?

    It's just amazing how fucked our leadership has been. Mind-boggling
    how Bush's policies were defended by the ignorant and the
    short-sighted.
    Well, that's just it, isn't it? "Peddle to the metal, until it's time
    to stomp on the brakes." And those few of us who can *think* can only
    watch in horror as it unfolds.
     
    dizzy, Jan 11, 2009
    #32
  13. Tim Howard

    Scott Dorsey Guest

    I watched both the Republican and Democratic primaries pretty carefully,
    and the ONLY person running who made any statement about getting the
    deficit under control and paying down the debt was Al Sharpton.

    When Al Sharpton starts making more sense than anyone else on the ballot,
    you know something is terribly, terribly wrong.
    --scott
     
    Scott Dorsey, Jan 12, 2009
    #33
  14. Tim Howard

    SC Tom Guest

    When Al Sharpton starts making more sense than anyone else on the ballot,
    ROTFLMAO!!!
     
    SC Tom, Jan 12, 2009
    #34
  15. Tim Howard

    Voyager Guest

    True, but then when the government goes bankrupt the welfare state
    system that Al loves so much will go away also. Those who refuse to
    work have the most to lose when the government goes away.
     
    Voyager, Jan 12, 2009
    #35
  16. Tim Howard

    IYM Guest

    Jeff

    Yes you're right - Timing is everything! :)

    IYM
     
    IYM, Jan 12, 2009
    #36
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