How much better is the '06 Sonata?

[Dr.Colon.Oscopy]

Perhaps he doesn't want the V8. Could be any number of reasons why,
expense, purchase price, point being, that wasn't his choice.......Doc

 

[Matt Whiting]

Well aren't we superior and judgmental?

No, just talking usenet reality.

I drive the freeways of Southern California. It would be hard, I
think, to live in the U.S. and not be at least somewhat aware of what
a driving horror that is. I find the V6 gives me a bit more
"escapabilty" than does a four cylinder. And I do know the difference.
I drove a four for years, and was scared to death many times trying to
get out of situations caused by really bad drivers.

And the argument about going all the way to a V8 is specious and not
worthy of discussion, as well know.

No, it is a logical extension of your original argument.

Matt

 

[Eric G.]

But you are so easy to troll.

It's easier to just admit that you wanted the extra power of the V-6.
Trying to make claims like safety, just makes you look silly.

Matt

It's only easier to admit if it were actually true. If telling the truth
just makes me look silly, then just call me Mr. Silly.

I'll stop feeding the troll now because I know that almost everyone that
bothered to drive the V6 bought it.

 

[Eric G.]

Well aren't we superior and judgmental?

I drive the freeways of Southern California. It would be hard, I
think, to live in the U.S. and not be at least somewhat aware of what
a driving horror that is. I find the V6 gives me a bit more
"escapabilty" than does a four cylinder. And I do know the difference.
I drove a four for years, and was scared to death many times trying to
get out of situations caused by really bad drivers.

And the argument about going all the way to a V8 is specious and not
worthy of discussion, as well know.

Cheers

I am pretty sure Matt has never had the opportunity to drive in conditions
that we call "normal". So please go easy on the troll, for he knows not
what we speak of

I
Even I can only imagine how much worse it is for you than me.

 

[Eric G.]

I don't think the Expedition outweighs a 1970 Fury III. I think
the bumpers on that outweighed my Sonata. ;-)


Matt

See, I knew it was reading comprehension problem!! I wasn't comparing
anything to your 1970 Fury, unless you are that much in a fog to think that
1970 was "just a few years ago".

 

[Matt Whiting]

It's only easier to admit if it were actually true. If telling the truth
just makes me look silly, then just call me Mr. Silly.

I'll stop feeding the troll now because I know that almost everyone that
bothered to drive the V6 bought it.

I drove both. I liked both. The decision point for me was three-fold:

1. I like stick shift and the Sonata doesn't offer a stick with the V-6
2. I was after fuel economy.
3. I wanted to keep the initial price as low as possible.

So, the 4 cylinder was an easy decision. And the ironic part is that it
easily out accelerates my V-6 minivan and my V-6 pickup truck.


Matt

 

[Matt Whiting]

I am pretty sure Matt has never had the opportunity to drive in conditions
that we call "normal". So please go easy on the troll, for he knows not
what we speak of

Maybe, maybe not. What are your normal conditions? I've driven in
Boston, LA, Atlanta, Paris, most of England and many large cities in the
USA. I haven't driven in Italy and I hear that is one of the most
challenging places to drive. Are you in Italy?

Matt

 

[Dr.Colon.Oscopy]

Wowwee, you certianly do get around on this planet...........jeez! You
should do a tv travel show. Just one question why would you think he
was in italy?....Doc

 

[Eric G.]

Maybe, maybe not. What are your normal conditions? I've driven in
Boston, LA, Atlanta, Paris, most of England and many large cities in
the USA. I haven't driven in Italy and I hear that is one of the most
challenging places to drive. Are you in Italy?

Matt

I've driven in all of those cities as well as Rome and Venice in Italy.
That still doesn't answer the question of what your normal conditions are.
Southern California was the worst I've seen by far, but where I live is
second on the list without a doubt, although I'd have to say that Atlanta
wasn't too far behind.

 

[Eric G.]

I drove both. I liked both. The decision point for me was
three-fold:

1. I like stick shift and the Sonata doesn't offer a stick with the
V-6 2. I was after fuel economy.
3. I wanted to keep the initial price as low as possible.

So, the 4 cylinder was an easy decision. And the ironic part is that
it easily out accelerates my V-6 minivan and my V-6 pickup truck.


Matt

Fair enough. I'm not judging your decision. For me, having to sit in
daily crawling traffic, a stick just doesn't make any sense. I did NOT
drive the 4 with a stick (the dealer didn't have one even if I wanted to).
Maybe that has good enough power, but you have to admit that the automatic
was a bit on the feebler side as far as pulling out into traffic, no? The
V6 was even an easier decision for me without the stick in the equation.

Just out of curiosity, do you know how much the minivan and pickup weigh
versus the Sonata?

 

[Matt Whiting]

Wowwee, you certianly do get around on this planet...........jeez! You
should do a tv travel show. Just one question why would you think he
was in italy?....Doc

I didn't, I was being facetious. He was implying that I'd never driven
in hectic urban conditions. I believe I've driven in conditions as bad
as anything short of Italy.

I have friends you spent time in Italy on a project while I was working
on a similar project in England. We compared notes from time to time
and it was clear that driving in Italy was quite an adventure.
Routinely passing down the middle of a two-lane (narrow at that) road
against opposing traffic was apparently quite routine. And the protocol
for going through an intersection marked with a stop sign was to honk
your horn a 100 yards away and if you heard no honks in return, you
simply drove through the intersection at cruise speed.

Maybe they were pulling my leg, but I've heard similar stories from a
number of people who have lived or driven in Italy.


Matt

 

[Matt Whiting]

I've driven in all of those cities as well as Rome and Venice in Italy.
That still doesn't answer the question of what your normal conditions are.
Southern California was the worst I've seen by far, but where I live is
second on the list without a doubt, although I'd have to say that Atlanta
wasn't too far behind.

My normal conditions are primarily rural two-lanes and four-lanes with
lots of semi traffic. I drive route 15 to work and it is the only
north-south route in central PA and is very heavily trafficed with large
trucks being dominant. Probably deer are one of the biggest road hazards.

I don't drive in the city on a daily basis, but I travel a lot in my
work so I drive fairly often in a number of cities around the US and the
world.


Matt

 

[Matt Whiting]

Fair enough. I'm not judging your decision. For me, having to sit in
daily crawling traffic, a stick just doesn't make any sense. I did NOT
drive the 4 with a stick (the dealer didn't have one even if I wanted to).
Maybe that has good enough power, but you have to admit that the automatic
was a bit on the feebler side as far as pulling out into traffic, no? The
V6 was even an easier decision for me without the stick in the equation.

And I wasn't judging your decision, I just was picking on your
justification for it.

I didn't drive a 4 cylinder automatic, but I found the V-6 automatic to
be fairly peppy both at low speeds and at high. I found the 4 cylinder
stick nearly as peppy up until about 80 MPH (don't tell the dealer about
my test drives!). The V-6, once it shifts down, pulls better at higher
speeds, but if you hold it in 5th, the advantage over the 4 cylinder
stick seemed minor to me.

Yes, I likely wouldn't buy a stick in the city, then again, I just might
as I really like stick shift and nearly despise automatics. I'm
probably the only person in my county who has a snow-plow equipped
pickup truck with a 5 speed. Everyone tells me you can't plow snow with
a standard without burning up the clutch. Well, I've done it for 50,000
miles or so with no problem (the truck has 90K, but has only had the
plow for the past 50K). I also tow a camper with a manual tranny.

I should say that I drove semis for 5 years so I really do know how to
drive a stick. Driven properly, a stick will do just about anything an
automatic will do, and does a lot of things better and for less money
and maintenance cost and far fewer failures.

Just out of curiosity, do you know how much the minivan and pickup weigh
versus the Sonata?

I'm not precisly sure, but my truck weighs about 5,600 lbs empty (I've
had it on scales so I know this number is pretty close). I'm not sure
about the minivan, but I'm guessing it weights 4,000 or so (it is an 03
Grand Caravan). The truck has the 4.3L Vortec V-6 and the van has the
3.3L V-6.

I'd have to go out and get my manual to look up the Sonata weight, but I
was thinking that the 4 cylinder/5 speed was just shy of 3,000 lbs and
it seems that the V-6 automatic was a couple of hundred pounds heavier.
The extra weight, and I believe higher final drive ratio, is the
likely reason that the acceleration difference isn't as pronounced as
the torque difference between the two engines might suggest.

If I get a minute, I'll Google and find the exact weights of the GC and
Sonata.

Matt

 

[James Atkinson]

Venice is one of the most challenging places to drive especially if you
don't float too well.

 

[Richard Johnson]

I guess I don't understand. someone wrote "how much better is the '06'
Sonata...

Then everyone get's their claws out.

If you guys wanna bitch to each other, please change the Subject and take it
there.

I wanted to see what everyone thought about the '06' sonata and Learned
NOTHING...

PS.. It's appears that it's not just this tread but many ones in many
groups.

 

[Matt Whiting]

I guess I don't understand. someone wrote "how much better is the '06'
Sonata...

Then everyone get's their claws out.

No, we were just having a little fun.

If you guys wanna bitch to each other, please change the Subject and take it
there.

Who appointed you guardian?

I wanted to see what everyone thought about the '06' sonata and Learned
NOTHING...

I've posted extensively about my 06 Sonata in another thread as have
others. If you've learned nothing, then you aren't paying attention or
reading much.

PS.. It's appears that it's not just this tread but many ones in many
groups.

That's usenet. Get used to it. It's been that way for decades, well at
least the two that I've been using it.


Matt

 

[Jody]

good one =-)

Why not get a V-8 then and be even safer?

Matt

 

[Eric G.]

Venice is one of the most challenging places to drive especially if
you don't float too well.

I drove an amphibious Volkswagen Beetle there wise guy

I would have to guess that you've never actually been to Venice to say
that, because there are plenty of roads around Venice "proper".

 

[Eric G.]

And I wasn't judging your decision, I just was picking on your
justification for it.

The bottom line is the AT 4 could not get out of its own way. If
anything, it was about the same as my Elantra. Considering the traffic,
merging and general acceleration needed in my daily driving area, it
wasn't an option for me. Again, it is a safety issue. If you don't
consider that safety, come live here for a while and see for yourself.
People will, for the most part, push you off the road if you're in their
way.

I didn't drive a 4 cylinder automatic, but I found the V-6 automatic
to be fairly peppy both at low speeds and at high. I found the 4
cylinder stick nearly as peppy up until about 80 MPH (don't tell the
dealer about my test drives!). The V-6, once it shifts down, pulls
better at higher speeds, but if you hold it in 5th, the advantage over
the 4 cylinder stick seemed minor to me.

I also ran both of my test drive vehicles hard and the 4AT couldn't hold
a candle to the V6. I find it hard to believe that the 4MT would have
much more pop, but it does have a higher final drive ratio, so that
could make a difference. It is also probably 200-300 pounds lighter
(guess) which would also help it out. Sounds like you should have also
looked at the Elantra GT.

Yes, I likely wouldn't buy a stick in the city, then again, I just
might as I really like stick shift and nearly despise automatics. I'm
probably the only person in my county who has a snow-plow equipped
pickup truck with a 5 speed. Everyone tells me you can't plow snow
with a standard without burning up the clutch. Well, I've done it for
50,000 miles or so with no problem (the truck has 90K, but has only
had the plow for the past 50K). I also tow a camper with a manual
tranny.

I also drove a MT for 20 years. I love it too (my Elantra was my first
AT purchased more because of the wife). I still have an '88 chevy P/U
with a MT. It's a light buty truck, and I don't plow with it, but we do
plow with the 1990 Dodge Ram P/U with an MT at work. As you said, it
works fine. We're at 100,000 miles at work with the first clutch and my
own truck is at 175,000 miles with the clutch replaced only once.

I should say that I drove semis for 5 years so I really do know how to
drive a stick. Driven properly, a stick will do just about anything
an automatic will do, and does a lot of things better and for less
money and maintenance cost and far fewer failures.

I have never driven a semi, but I drive a 1968 Mack tanker truck with 14
gears at work. Ten years ago I would have agreed with you completely.
I still agree that a manual will run for less money and maintenance
cost, but honestly there is almost nothing a stick will do these days
that an atuo can't.

I'm not precisly sure, but my truck weighs about 5,600 lbs empty (I've
had it on scales so I know this number is pretty close). I'm not sure
about the minivan, but I'm guessing it weights 4,000 or so (it is an
03 Grand Caravan). The truck has the 4.3L Vortec V-6 and the van has
the 3.3L V-6.

I'd have to go out and get my manual to look up the Sonata weight, but
I was thinking that the 4 cylinder/5 speed was just shy of 3,000 lbs
and it seems that the V-6 automatic was a couple of hundred pounds
heavier.
The extra weight, and I believe higher final drive ratio, is the
likely reason that the acceleration difference isn't as pronounced as
the torque difference between the two engines might suggest.

If I get a minute, I'll Google and find the exact weights of the GC
and Sonata.

Exact numbers aren't important really. Just run a general HP/weight
ratio and you will see why the Sonata accelerates better. Yes tourque
can be a factor too, but usually not unless you are comparing a diesel
engine.

Eric

 

[Matt Whiting]

The bottom line is the AT 4 could not get out of its own way. If
anything, it was about the same as my Elantra. Considering the traffic,
merging and general acceleration needed in my daily driving area, it
wasn't an option for me. Again, it is a safety issue. If you don't
consider that safety, come live here for a while and see for yourself.
People will, for the most part, push you off the road if you're in their
way.

Sounds like you need a Hummer, not a Sonata.

I have never driven a semi, but I drive a 1968 Mack tanker truck with 14
gears at work. Ten years ago I would have agreed with you completely.
I still agree that a manual will run for less money and maintenance
cost, but honestly there is almost nothing a stick will do these days
that an atuo can't.

A stick can be push or coast started if the battery dies. A stick can
be more safely towed. I can control which gear my transmission is in at
all times. I realize the shiftronic can now do this as well, but it
seemed a little gimicky to me. I am simply too used to the "H" pattern
and couldn't remember which way to move the lever to shift up and down
manually. A stick won't overheat like an automatic can. And manual
still gets better fuel mileage in almost all vehicles, though I have
seen a couple where the auto was the same or even claimed to be better.
It is is better, then I believe that is due to a poorly designed
manual or an improper final drive ratio.

Exact numbers aren't important really. Just run a general HP/weight
ratio and you will see why the Sonata accelerates better. Yes tourque
can be a factor too, but usually not unless you are comparing a diesel
engine.

Actually, torque is the only factor insofar as acceleration is concerned
as torque is a measure of force and force is the factor in acceleration
as Newton told us so many years ago. Remember, F=ma. Horsepower
determines the top speed capability as it is a measure of work and the
faster the car goes the more work it is doing.

Matt