Santa Fe 2004 V6 Valve tap

My Santa Fe has had a very intermittent valve tap.
Mostly occurs after car sat for a few days, long weekend.
I can start up sounding like the valve will come through the valve cover,
then quiets down.
Does not occur often, and I believe I can feel it as I drive the car.

2 dealers keep making like its nothing, and one even said they have heard
this on cars just started after shipment or after sitting in lot. They are
normalizing the problem.

They also keep indicating that their oil filter, which has a drain back
valve it, is significantly different and hold the oil pressure up in the
hydraulic valves better than any other OEM equiv filter. I'm sure there is
some truth to this oil filter theory.
but....
I have had this tap issue when using the dealer provided Hyundai filter, and
oil, or those provided from the Jiffy lube type places. So I can argue that
the Hyundai filter is NOT any better.


However. how can any design allow for such random valve tapping problem? I
can fathom that this is viewed as normal.

Is anyone else getting this tapping issue?

 

How often do you change the oil? I used to have a similar problem on a
Subaru (boxer engine). If the oil was not changed every 7500 kms or so, it
developed valve tapping.

Ivar Petur

 

Intresting thought....

I do change the oil at 3000 mile intervals. But what you mentioned may
indicate that it can be related to the oil quality or vicostity.....
Note: If these cars are doing this right from the factory, then I would
wonder if the factory recommend oil is not good enough.

 

I'm pretty much in agreement with the dealers' opinions. When you turn the
engine off, some of the valves remain open, placing a significant amount of
pressure on the lifters. This pressure on the lifters of the open valves
over a significant amount of time (days) will actually push some of the
oil out of the lifter and it will collapse a little bit, resulting in the
noise you hear. On a start after an overnight sit, I would expect the
noise to go away after a minute or less. After a several day sit, driving
a few miles may be necessary. If the noise remains after the times
specified above, then I'd think you may have some sort of issue with oil
delivery to the lifters. Lack of an anti-drainback valve in the filter
can grossly exaggerate this problem.

 

Interesting feedback.
Hyundaitech....you have answered many things in this forum, and I value your
honest technical answers. I appreciate your support. Please continue your
efforts in this forum.

I spoke in further detail with the service manager at my dealer. After
leaving the car with them for 2 weeks, they did manage to start and hear the
problem. In fact the service manager said he shut it off, and
restarted....and it flooded because one of the valves were stuck. He had to
restart holding the gas pedal down to the floor to clear the flooded
condition. At that time, I had a OEM equiv filter in the car.
I asked them to change the oil&filter and retest. This time after a few days
of sitting, there was no valve tap.

As it was always a random occupancy, I am still not convinced.
Perhaps the bleedback/check valve does not hold pressure the same way in the
OEM equiv. filter?
check/drainback valves are common in OEM filters and the manf of these
filters are well aware of the valve req.
What are the detailed OEM specs on the drainback valve, so one can compare
with other filters?
Perhaps a combination of the Hyundai Ofilter & quality of oil makes a
difference?

I think Hyundai needs to really dig into and identify this issue, and if any
damage to the car is happening because the valves don't open do to
hydrolytic pressure loss. I need to know that no damage will occur because
of pressure loss.....
Either way, Hyundai needs to make it clear, not obscure, that value tapping
will result and/or damage will occur if such & such filters and oil are
used.....etc. A service bulletin should clarify, not cover up the
characteristic valve tap of this issue.

Anyway, I now have a Hyundai filter and Mobil 1 oil in the car and will be
listening at every restart.
I bought several Hyundai oil filters to keep on hand and will try a few
brand oils and see if there is any difference.

I will post my findings at a later date, meanwhile let me know if you have
any further details



After oil change and Hyundai filter, they didn't hear the issue

 

I purchaced a 2004 Santa Fe LX W/ 3.5 L, so far no problems @ 6000 miles.
The first Santa Fe I test drove had the same valve rapping problem, it
sounded really bad. I told the salesman that there had to be a problem with
the engine and he responded that he heard others that rapped the same way
and that they took the car back to the shop and did something to it to cure
the problem. The one I purchased has never tapped even after sitting for a
whole week. Using Mobil 1 5W30 W/ Hyundai filters

 

What you are hearing is valve lifter noise and not valve noise. Not
uncommon in any engine with hydraulic lifter if the engine has sat
long,: even overnight. The noise should go away though after a minute
or so when the lifter fills with oil. IMHO this is so common as to be
a non-issue and certainly no damage is done. ed

 

It sounds like the dealer may be onto something if the tap hasn't happened
again. I'd continue monitoring. Unfortunately Hyundai does not provide
any information on the relief valve in the filter. An anti-drainback
valve is rather simple in that it only allows the oil to flow in one
direction.

You can pretty much trust that if this issue were causing significant
engine damage, Hyundai would be all over trying to find the cause. That
would cost them lots of warranty dollars in a hurry. In fact, Hyundai has
done a commendable job of monitoring quality and making design revisions to
prevent new parts from having the same problems as the old parts.

I've not seen any tsb's regarding the proper oil filter. I agree it would
be much easier to determine what would be acceptable if Hyundai were to
openly publish the design specs. But it's also not their responsibility
to test many of the aftermarket filters to see if they meet Hyundai's
requirements. I've heard rumors about the really tiny Fram (and possibly
other brand) filters starving engines for oil, but my sources are very
doubtable, so at this point I hesitate to state that as fact. I have no
problem using Fram filters on my personal vehicle as long as it is the
proper filter for my car. I think it would be a good idea within the
warranty period to continue using the Hyundai filters. That way, if
anything does happen, even if it's the fault of the filter, it will still
be warrantable. If Hyundai believes an aftermarket filter to be at fault,
you'll have to fight just to see if you can get them to consider repair
under warranty.

 

The "valve" in the oil filter has nothing to do with holding the oil
pressure up in the hydraulicc lash adjusters(HLA) located way up in the
cylinder head. It just helps the oil reach the top of the engine
faster.

Does it happen when the engine is at normal operating temp., idling?

 

No, it shouldn't take that long, "hyundaitech".

 

Very interesting, "hyundaitech".
So what specific design specs are we looking for here?

Bonus question:

why did you stop posting on Kia and Pontiac newsgroups altogether in
Aug. last year?
Don't ya think there are a lot more Pontiac owners need your help,
"hyundaitech"?

 

The design specs that would be of interest:
1. Maximum flow through oil filter
2. Amount of filter material
3. Type of filter material
4. Smallest particle which filter material will allow to pass
5. Pressure at which bypass valve in filter opens
6. Presence of anti-drainback valve.
That's what I can think of off the top of my head.

And off topic, I stopped reading and posting in the GM and Kia sections
because I was spending too much time on the newsgroup. I cut it back to
something more manageable. Are there people in those other groups who
desparately need my advice?

 

And why Hyundai/Kia/Pontiac newsgroups only until Aug. 2004? Was it
because you were working at a Hyundai/kia/Pontiac-GMC dealership?

 

**Who gives a shit? He's here now and he's a great asset to this NG.
You sound like a jealous old woman.


kaboomie

 

Could you ask him how he finds tim to post here during working hours if
he is a full-time working tech? I doubt the service bays have an
Internet connection.

 

Actually, I posted in Hyundai, Kia, and anything GM with the probable
exception of Cadillac. I was mainly posting there because those were my
areas of experience. In August, 2003, I moved from an Olds/Kia dealership
to a multifranchise dealership where my primary responsibility was
diagnosis on the Hyundai product. Olds was similar enought to many other
GM products that I could speak reasonably intelligently about the things
I'd experienced.

GM experience: 3.5 yrs
Kia experience: 6 yrs
Hyundai experience: 9 yrs

It's now been long enough since I've been away from GM and Kia that I
can't speak as to their new models. Not only did I find that reading and
posting on so many boards took up too much time, I was also finding that I
was able to answer fewer and fewer questions.

 

**Maybe he's a part-time tech or he works odd-ass hours or he does
have internet access at work and he's screwin around. Who knows? He's
not lying or jerking people around here and he knows his stuff. I
don't get why anyone should care.


kaboomie

 

It is up to the readers of my posts whether they wish to believe what I
tell them about myself. I do not post here to give insight into my
personal life. I post here to be of assistance to people who find it
useful.

If you doubt the accuracy of my advice, perhaps you can review the posts
I've made and see what percentage of time I've been reported as correct by
the original poster, and what percentage of time I've been reported as
incorrect. I think I've got a pretty good percentage here. Considering
that I haven't seen the vehicles and that in most cases I'm pretty much
guessing, I would think that would carry some weight, too. Although I
suspect it's not as high as in the Hyundai group, I also suspect my
average was pretty good on the GM and Kia boards. But I don't care enough
to go and find out. If it's that important to you, check the stats and
report back.

 

Self-correction. Sorry. I meant to say the *largest* particle which
will pass through the filter.

 

Mr. Theta, (if that is your real name)... may I ask you a question? You seem
to have some sort of grudge against Hyundaitech; can you tell us the reason
for this? I'm just curious, because he seems to know what he's talking
about.

Regards,

Neil